This was a great point to reflect on for having a consistent character. I'd like to think that the conclusion I have for myself is that anything that is worth doing is equally so whether I am visible or not - invisibility being an indifferent. Of course, this perfect consistency is something that I continue to work towards.
I find it amusing that Marcus reflects on a similar thought (Meditations 5.6) from the other direction - the performance of an action with the desire to be seen:
6. One man, when he has done a service to another, is ready to set it down to his account as a favour conferred. Another is not ready to do this, but still in his own mind he thinks of the man as his debtor, and he knows what he has done. A third in a manner does not even know what he has done, but he is like a vine which has produced grapes, and seeks for nothing more after it has once produced its proper fruit. As a horse when he has run, a dog when he has tracked the game, a bee when it has made the honey, so a man when he has done a good act, does not call out for others to come and see, but he goes on to another act, as a vine goes on to produce again the grapes in season...
Great quote from Marcus, Griff. Yes, I think that is the Stoic goal: To become the kind of person for whom helping other people benefits you and is part of your nature, like the vine producing grapes.
I think about Aristotle's position on this a lot. We have to train ourselves to like helping others or acting well. Once we get there, then helping others is easy.
But the Stoic point is more like Marcus' here: We are naturally pro-social things, so it is always in our interest to act this way.
When I read about this in Cicero's book, it was the first time I had seen it. After hearing you explain how the Stoics would view this it makes a lot more sense. I'm going to have to spend more time thinking about this. Thanks Micheal for sharing this with me.
This was a great point to reflect on for having a consistent character. I'd like to think that the conclusion I have for myself is that anything that is worth doing is equally so whether I am visible or not - invisibility being an indifferent. Of course, this perfect consistency is something that I continue to work towards.
I find it amusing that Marcus reflects on a similar thought (Meditations 5.6) from the other direction - the performance of an action with the desire to be seen:
6. One man, when he has done a service to another, is ready to set it down to his account as a favour conferred. Another is not ready to do this, but still in his own mind he thinks of the man as his debtor, and he knows what he has done. A third in a manner does not even know what he has done, but he is like a vine which has produced grapes, and seeks for nothing more after it has once produced its proper fruit. As a horse when he has run, a dog when he has tracked the game, a bee when it has made the honey, so a man when he has done a good act, does not call out for others to come and see, but he goes on to another act, as a vine goes on to produce again the grapes in season...
— Marcus Aurelius
Meditations
stoameditation.com/app
Also I love that the app makes pulling quotes so easy - great work, all around!
Great quote from Marcus, Griff. Yes, I think that is the Stoic goal: To become the kind of person for whom helping other people benefits you and is part of your nature, like the vine producing grapes.
I think about Aristotle's position on this a lot. We have to train ourselves to like helping others or acting well. Once we get there, then helping others is easy.
But the Stoic point is more like Marcus' here: We are naturally pro-social things, so it is always in our interest to act this way.
When I read about this in Cicero's book, it was the first time I had seen it. After hearing you explain how the Stoics would view this it makes a lot more sense. I'm going to have to spend more time thinking about this. Thanks Micheal for sharing this with me.
Thanks David, I hope it was helpful. I'd welcome any follow up questions or thoughts here as well.