Michael and Caleb run a Buddhism 101 for Stoics. They start with the Buddha: a prince who had everything, saw old age, sickness, and death for the first time, and walked away from the palace to figure out why we suffer. From there it’s the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path, and the Middle Way.

(00:00) Introduction

(06:28) The Buddha’s Founding Parable

(14:24) The Four Noble Truths

(19:59) The Middle Way and the Eightfold Path

(31:30) The Evolutionary Case for Buddhism

(40:09) Where Stoicism and Buddhism Overlap

(48:02) Where They Split Apart

Download the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/pod

If you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we’ll set you up with a free account.

Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/

Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:

tno

Nothing lasts. Everything is ephemeral.

Part of internalizing this message requires pruning everything that doesn’t matter. Remove the trivial from your life. You do not have time for it.

The other aspect of this involves seizing what matters.

You can think of this as having two parts: recognition and action. recognize what matters. Don’t let it pass you by. Then act. See the good, then be it.

These are intertwined. Today, let’s focus on the first part: simply feeling gratitude for what we have.

One way to practice this is to bring to mind what we’re grateful for. The people in our life. Our health, such as it is. Our standard of living. Our ability to engage with human art and the beauty of nature.

Just bring these to mind – and then imagine your life as if they were gone. A life without the people we love, in poor health, without shelter or art could still be a good one. But it would be a difficult one. And there would be a real tragedy in losing all the people we love.

Take solace in the fact that this world is a fiction. But in another way, it is not. It’s a simple fact of life that everything is temporary.

So, while you can, recognize what you have. Do not take it for granted.

Do not become the person who realizes how good they had it – when they are about to lose everything. Instead, take joy in what you have now. And take as much advantage of it as you can.

Be present in your relationships. Treat your body well. Consume great art and appreciate nature. Do this before loved ones leave and your body begins to break down.

Let’s end with a line from Marcus Aurelius:

The perfection of moral character consists in this, in passing every day as if it were the last.

Meditations 7:69

Here are some amusing posts on the theme:

These claims are overblown. Not all journaling is narcissistic neuroticism. Anyway, the optimal amount of neuroticism, understood as a personality characteristic, is not zero.

Nonetheless diary writing can be unhealthy. Like so many other things. Some use it as a tool for rumination. Others as a ledger for fake work – writing about self improvement that never happens. Still others for self-absorbed commentary.

Against this, Marcus Aurelius provides a good model. Marcus Aurelius does many things in his Meditations. He pushes himself to be better and rehearses his principles. It serves as memoranda, a way for him to remember his philosophy of life. He often quotes Epictetus, but we also see Plato and several of the ancient poets.

The Stoic emperor does not ruminate over mistakes, but moves his attention to who he aspires to be, the principles he wants to embody, and motivates himself to see things as they are and be better. And I think that’s an excellent model for thought, let alone journaling.

Your present opinion founded on understanding, and your present conduct directed to social good, and your present disposition of contentment with everything which happens- that is enough.

9.6

The answer is not what most people expect. It is not extreme effort. It is not raw talent. Excellence turns out to be mundane. It is how you do the boring things, every day, for a long time. And when the pressure is on, excellence is just doing those boring things well one more time.

(00:00) Introduction: What makes someone excellent?

(02:50) Lesson One: Excellence requires qualitative differentiation

(06:40) Separate worlds: how levels differ in kind, not amount

(07:40) Lesson Two: Talent does not lead to excellence

(09:40) Talent is indistinguishable from its effects

(11:00) Talent as a floor, not a ceiling

(14:20) Lesson Three: Excellence is mundane

(14:30) Mary Meagher: show up on time, nail the turns

(17:40) Long-term motivation is boring

(18:30) Excellence is doing the boring stuff under pressure

(20:40) How refusing the mundane caps your ceiling

(23:10) Summary of the three lessons

(25:50) Takeaways for Stoic practice: making good use of impressions

Download the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/pod

If you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we’ll set you up with a free account.

Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/

Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:

https://ancientlyre.com/

The other nearby metaphor is of getting on the right path, sticking to it. Taking one step after another.

These are useful and enlightening frames on our life, but another useful one is via negativa. Becoming who you’re meant to be through subtraction. Removing bad habits: the things that waste your time, the unnecessary cruft of ordinary life.

A beautiful line from the philosopher Plotinus:

Withdraw into yourself and look. And if you do not find yourself beautiful yet, act as does the creator of a statue that is to be made beautiful: he cuts away here, he smoothes there, he makes this line lighter, this other purer, until a lovely face has grown upon his work. So do you also: cut away all that is excessive, straighten all that is crooked, bring light to all that is overcast, labour to make all one glow of beauty and never cease chiselling your statue, until there shall shine out on you from it the godlike splendour of virtue, until you shall see the perfect goodness surely established in the stainless shrine.

In other words, virtue is already there. We just need to find it. One of my favorite lines from Confucius on this:

Is goodness really so far away? If I simply desire goodness, I will find that it is already here.

The Stoics believe that we are all rational and, as such, have within us already the tools for living a good life. Which, for them, meant thinking well, desiring what is up to us, and embracing what is not.

So play with both of these frames and perhaps take on the frame of via negativa – transformation through subtraction. Look at all the superfluous parts of your life and see if you can remove them. That’s a good way to start.

The teaching, perhaps, is even deeper than that. Think of the case of marble and the sculptor. Uncover the intelligence you already have. You’ve done it before. All the Stoics ask is that you do it again and again. Cut away everything else.

Seneca saw emperors come and go. At one point, he was rumored to be the richest man in all of Rome. Despite a life of political intrigue, risk, and bustle, he wrote plays and philosophical works fated to outlive him.

It’s not much of an exaggeration to say he was a combination of Shakespeare, Socrates, and Thomas Jefferson. This is a combination so rare that, for most of history, scholars believed Seneca the playwright and Seneca the philosopher were two different people.

His writings and life contain deep lessons about how to live well. Seneca is worth emulating, and yet he also made decisions that are lessons in how to avoid ruin.

Born around 4 BC in modern-day Spain, he moved to Rome, where he eventually served as a senator. He was renowned for his rhetorical skill. Indeed, he may have been too good. He was exiled from Rome on grounds of being involved in an affair with an emperor’s sister. This charge was likely fabricated by his political enemies.

Almost 10 years later, Seneca was called out of exile by the ambitious and strategic Agrippina, the mother of the Roman emperor Nero, to serve as Nero’s tutor.

This role placed him in the powerful and precarious position of advising Rome’s most powerful man. Unfortunately, despite Seneca’s lessons, Nero was neither the most sane nor the most virtuous emperor.

Nero’s early years were prosperous. It’s surmised that, at this point, Seneca, Agrippina, and another one of Nero’s tutors, Burrus, essentially ran the Roman Empire.

Yet Nero’s later reign was disastrous. Though some historians have argued that he’s painted in too negative a light, Nero was greedy, impulsive, and unstable. Senators were pressured to play the sycophant to his childish behavior. Not all did. Those who didn’t faced exile or death.

In time, Nero’s rage turned to Seneca. The emperor ordered Seneca to commit suicide in 65 AD.

And so ended the life of a Stoic philosopher, advisor, and playwright. Seneca lived a complex life.

One lesson that shines through is his dedication to language.

When we remember Seneca, we should remember someone who saw speech as a craft. Today, many of us treat our conversations with ourselves and others in an informal and trivial manner. However, language is a weighty thing.

What do you say to comfort someone grieving? This is a situation Seneca was placed in again and again. One of his most famous letters, the Consolation to Marcia, was written to a mother who had lost her son three years earlier and was still in deep mourning. Someone who treats language seriously is prepared to know what to say and think in life’s high-stakes situations. Anyone who treats words in a flippant way is not.

A focus on language may seem odd, but it is through words that we communicate with others and think. By devoting himself to the word, Seneca’s ideas outlived him hundredfold.

In a life of politics and action, Seneca practiced his craft in philosophy, speeches, and plays. Many politicians write or ghostwrite books today. Yet how many of them are truly great works?

Seneca’s work is sublime. His plays heavily influenced Renaissance playwrights. His philosophy has stood the test of time. This is only so because Seneca took his ideas, and the vehicle by which he expressed them, seriously.

We should picture Seneca perfecting his thought through language in private, not merely in public. He reflected often. In On Anger, he writes:

When the light has been taken away and my wife has fallen silent, aware as she is of my habit, I examine my entire day, going through what I have done and said. I conceal nothing from myself, I pass nothing by. I have nothing to fear from my errors when I can say: ‘See that you do not do this anymore. For the moment, I excuse you.’

Each day, he asks what he did well and where he could improve. His Moral Letters to Lucilius show the fruits of this practice. In those letters, he passes on his hard-won wisdom on life to his peer and friend, Lucilius.

He was able to do this because of how devoted he was to his craft and to philosophical reflection.

Seneca’s life was far from perfect. He is the first to admit it. Nonetheless, behind all of his practical advice and wisdom is something we must not miss: the love of language.

Caleb shares his life philosophy in this companion to Michael’s earlier episode. He builds the case for Stoicism from the ground up, then turns it on itself. If happiness has to be up to us, what does that say about the rest of life? And what do you do with the parts of human experience that don’t fit neatly into propositions?

The thread running through it all is humility. Stoicism gives you a strong frame. It also asks you to admit what you don’t know.

(00:00) Introduction

(03:30) The Core Argument: Happiness Must Be Up to Us

(13:30) Character and How We Think

(15:30) Human Nature: Rationality and Sociability

(25:30) Objection One: Life Is Tragic

(31:30) Objection Two: Reason Doesn’t Capture Everything

(41:00) Objection Three: Non-Cognitive Knowledge

(48:50) Summing Up

Download the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/pod

If you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we’ll set you up with a free account.

Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/

Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:

https://ancientlyre.com/

To feel shame is to approach courage.

Shame for the Stoics involves failing to live up to our ideal. When we feel it, we notice the difference between who we are and who we could be.

Seneca approvingly quotes Epicurus who said:

Awareness of wrongdoing is the starting point for healing.

Moral Letters, 28

I’m not talking about being shamed by others – but the internal recognition that we’ve missed the mark.

The question is what happens next.

Will it be a moment for courage – will you take the risk to close the gap? Or continue in your ways?

The emotion isn’t just an opportunity for bravery, there’s also the risk of cowardice.

You could wallow in shame. Or simply make the rift between your real and ideal self wider.

Another way to put this is: will you transform the emotion into self-pity or self-respect?

To feel shame is to face a choice.

The Stoic style of exhortation is useful because it is always meant to serve as motivation between the ideal and the actual – to do your best.

Give me courage to meet hardships; make me calm in the face of the unavoidable.

Seneca, Moral Letters 49

Always forward looking – and courageous. Another translation of the Epicurus line:

The knowledge of sin is the beginning of salvation.

Neither too serious nor too frivolous.

This is well put by Musashi:

The mindset in the Way of combat must be no different from one’s normal state of mind. In the course of your daily life, and when engaged in strategy, there should be no change whatsoever in your outlook. Your mind should be expansive and direct, devoid of tension, but not at all casual. Keep your mind centered, not leaning too much to one side, swaying serenely and freely so that it does not come to a standstill in moments of change. Consider this carefully.

Book of Five Rings

At times, playful. At others, intense. The Stoic is calm, but not merely. Their mind is adaptable and can take on the shape of whatever the situation requires.

Is it a time for levity? Then the soul is light. A time for gravity? Then it is appropriately somber.

The Stoics meant this literally. The soul expands and contracts with emotions:

Distress is a contraction of psyche which is disobedient to reason, and its cause is a fresh believing that some evil is present toward which it is appropriate to <be contracted. Delight is an elevation of psyche which is disobedient to reason, and its cause is a fresh believing that some good is present toward which it is appropriate to> be elevated.

Stobaeus

Cited in the excellent Margaret Graver Stoicism and Emotion.

Negative emotions, passions, disorder the soul. This is a physical, not just a cognitive, happening.

Good emotions order the soul: wish, caution. And what is ordered is harmonious – ready to meet the moment.

But for each person, when they approach their life from the right distance, neither too close nor too far away, their mind is consistent. The way of combat is no different from the way of love.

(00:00) Visiting the Stoa Poikile and the Athenian Agora

(05:00) The Acropolis, the Lyceum, and Plato’s Academy

(06:30) Edward Lear and Athens as an imaginary city

(08:40) Athens as a platonic form

Download the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/pod

If you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we’ll set you up with a free account.

Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/

Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:

https://ancientlyre.com/

What if there is something that connects all great people? Something that they all have in common about how they approach life, from great entrepreneurs and artists to community leaders and philosophers. Yes they are all good at different things, but what if we could narrow in on what all great people have in common, and focus on developing that in particular?

Zen has an answer to that question. What connects all great people is an understanding of the Way - a direct indescribable knowledge of the nature of the current moment and how to navigate it successfully.

Now, you can’t use words to describe something that is indescribable. Even if I understood it myself, I couldn’t tell you what the Way is, any more than I could give you a set of words that instantly make you a great artist, parent, or entrepreneur.

You have to understand it yourself through study and practice. However, 400 years ago a Japanese samurai, undefeated in over 60 duels, retired to a cave to write down his understanding of the Way. He knew his book couldn’t give people the answer, but it might help them get there quicker.

I’m talking about Miyamoto Musashi’s famous Book of Five Rings.

Zen is a type of Buddhism that emphasizes practice, particularly meditation and contemplation, over the study of theory or scripture. But it is also heavily influenced by the Taoist traditions, with a focus on finding ‘the way’ through life, the thing that connects all exceptional people, and runs through each domain of life.

To understand “the way” of anything, is to understand how to live well. However, Zen also argues that this way is indescribable. We can’t just talk about it and write it down, we have to come to understand it through practice.

The zen warrior is someone who pursues ‘the way’ through the art of combat or battle. This is their practice or craft, along with meditation, that enables them to understand how to live.

So, someone practicing Zen aims to live well, but is skeptical of how far theory can take them, so they begin a practice. The Zen warrior involves combat, conflict, and battle as a key part of that practice.

Some reading this may be professional soldiers, or combat athletes, but not many. So why should you care about Warrior Zen if you do not think of yourself as a warrior?

Warrior Zen is a life philosophy that focuses on using high-stress or challenging conflicts in our life and turning them into a way to live better. It is about mastering strategy, learning how to succeed in difficult situations, and then applying that strategy back to other parts of your own life.

Miyamoto Musashi is an excellent teacher of Warrior Zen. Musashi was a Japanese swordsman who lived in the 17th century. Known as perhaps the greatest sword fighter of all time, he was undefeated in over 60 duels, many of which were to the death.

He was also renowned for his innovative style of fighting, which often broke convention, and his use of two swords, instead of the more common single sword style. If all Musashi had done was fight with a sword, he would still be well known today. But he was also a philosopher.

Months before his death, at nearly 60 years old, he isolated himself in a cave and wrote down his philosophy of swordsmanship and life in the Book of Five Rings.

There are many lessons in this book, about how to fight and how to live.

It also has many parallels to Stoicism. Remember that the Stoics also compared living well to a kind of combat.

Marcus Aurelius wrote that:

The art of life is more like the wrestler’s art than the dancer’s, in respect of this, that it should stand ready and firm to meet onsets which are sudden and unexpected.

Meditations, 7.61

Zen does not always use the same language as western philosophy. It does not talk about pursuing virtue, or eudaimonia. Instead, it focuses on achieving what is called “The Way”. Zen philosophers aspire to life in accordance with the Way - even if it is not easily describable.

One key theme of Musashi’s writing is that we can learn about ‘The Way’ through whatever craft we pursue excellence in, although as a zen warrior his craft is battle.

So there is a ‘Way’ in swordfighting, and by understanding that, Musashi gets closer to understanding how to follow ‘The Way’ in life.

This is similar to the Stoic’s craft analogy. Living well is a skill to be learnt like any other, so our other skills teach us about living.

Keep this in mind when studying Musashi.

You may not be a fighter, but you do have other skills. They are all connected. Learning about ‘The Way’ of swordfighting will teach you about how to draw, run a business, or be a better friend.

Epictetus reminded us that even though you may train to be an Olympic champion for years, after all that work, you might still fail.

Success is not up to you. Even if you do everything in your power. Even if you are realistic, consistent, inspired, resilient and focused - you can still fail any external goal.

If you are a runner, unless you are world champion, you only won your race because someone better than you did not register. And you only came in last because no one worse than you was there.

The Stoic is not discouraged by failure, or made cocky by success. Instead, they use success or failure as feedback. It becomes information, an input into the process.

Marcus wrote in his meditations:

That which rules within, when it is according to nature, is so affected with respect to the events which happen, that it always easily adapts itself to that which is and is presented to it. For it requires no definite material, but it moves towards its purpose, under certain conditions however; and it makes a material for itself out of that which opposes it, as fire lays hold of what falls into it, by which a small light would have been extinguished: but when the fire is strong, it soon appropriates to itself the matter which is heaped on it, and consumes it, and rises higher by means of this very material.

To paraphrase Marcus in more plain language, the philosopher pursues a goal or purpose and turns whatever failures or hardship it encounters into material that benefits that goal.

Their character is like a fire that has achieved enough size and power to consume whatever is thrown into it, instead of being snuffed out.

Inspired by the Stoics, the contemporary author Nassim Taleb described this ability as antifragility. The antifragile person is made stronger by disruption, failure, and challenge - they are the opposite of the fragile person, who is ruined by chaos.

High-performers are antifragile. They incorporate failure into the process. They learn from their mistakes. Being antifragile, like all things, required effort and focus. You must practice finding the lesson in each failure.

But it also requires a flexibility of purpose. If your goal is to make the 2032 Olympics, or get accepted into a specific medical school, or have a specific amount of money by a certain age - you can’t be antifragile about these goals. They are binary. You either reach them or you fail. They have no flexibility.

The Stoic’s ultimate goal is to make the right choice in every moment with what they have available to them - so their purpose is maximally flexible.

But - that goal is a bit abstract. Specific goals can be framed more flexibly too. Instead of making the olympics, aspire to achieve your potential as an athlete. Instead of being accepted at medical school, aspire to become someone that helps people with their health. Instead of a certain net worth, aspire to be financially responsible.

Antifragility comes from practice and focus, and reframing your goals as a purpose rather than a specific achievement.

Today, consider how you can make your goal a purpose - so that you can be antifragile to anything outside your control.

As always, if you cannot afford the Stoa app but want to use it nonetheless, send an email to stoa@stoameditation.com and we will set you up with a free account.

Caleb and Michael continue their series on Musashi’s Book of Five Rings with the second book: Water. Where Book One laid out general strategy, this one gets into the craft itself: swordsmanship as a lens for how to carry yourself, think clearly, and stay locked onto what actually matters.

(00:00) Introduction to the Water Book

(03:40) Mindset: Quietly Vibrating, Not Leaning

(07:50) Don’t Let Your Body Control Your Mind

(10:50) Spirit vs. Body Size

(13:00) Posture as Evidence of a Strong Mind

(18:00) Make Your Everyday Stance Your Strategic Stance

(21:50) Purpose Over Technique: Cut the Opponent Down

(25:10) Bruce Lee, the UFC, and Rejecting Styles

(28:00) Telos: The Ancient Word for “Keep Your Eye on the Ball”

(31:30) Positions That Exist and Don’t Exist

(35:00) Precepts as Boats: When to Let Go of Rules

(38:30) Rhythm in Fighting, Conversation, and Life

(42:00) Offensive and Defensive Lessons on Disruption

(44:50) Forge Yourself with a Thousand Days of Training

Download the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/pod

If you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we’ll set you up with a free account.

Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/

Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:

https://ancientlyre.com/

First, a quick summary of the Stoic position. It’s perfectly captured by Epictetus:

But it is a man’s own opinions which disturb him: for when the tyrant says to a man, I will chain your leg, he who values his leg says, Do not; have pity: but he who values his own will says, If it appears more advantageous to you, chain it.

Discourses 19.1

Other people do not determine your happiness. Ultimately, that is up to your decisions and judgements.

Yes, other people can constrain your liberty – but ultimately they cannot limit your freedom:

And what is freedom, you ask? It means not being a slave to any circumstance, to any constraint, to any chance; it means compelling Fortune to enter the lists on equal terms.

Seneca, Moral Letters 51

Epictetus tells the story of Helvidius Priscus refusing to shut up just because the emperor demanded it. Why? Because the job of a senator and philosopher is to speak his mind – not give it up just because an emperor threatens him.

Stephanie asked, “Can tyrants take away our dignity?” With such philosophical questions, it always depends on what we mean – and as the SEP says “dignity is a complex concept.” For the Stoics, it is essential to distinguish between other people wronging you and causing you to suffer.

Other people can wrong you – and that requires a response. The Stoics certainly do not deny that. But again, they cannot make you suffer. Here is Marcus Aurelius:

If you take away your opinion about that which appears to give you pain, you yourself stand in perfect security.

Meditations 8.40

So, other people can treat us unjustly. They may affront our dignity. But they cannot impinge on the inner citadel. That’s our own.

This, of course, is consistent with defending ourselves and others from tyrants. Stoics died resisting tyrants themselves – think of the Stoic opposition to Nero or Cato’s war against Caesar.

It’s Stoic practice that cements our dignity in any circumstance. Helvidius Priscus acted with courage because he believed no emperor held power over him. People who are slaves to fortune sell their soul for the sake of rewards or the fear of punishment.

But if Stoics believe others cannot ultimately harm us – what grounds our rights? This is a deep question, perhaps deserving of another piece. Here I’d just like to reframe it as a separate matter from the point that Michael is making is his post:

Tyrants control the domain of externals. And if we worship externals, the things not to us, then they will control our happiness and our emotions.

The purpose of the game of life is to play it well. No one can prevent you from doing that to the best of your ability. It doesn’t matter whether others play dirty, play fair, or hold a better hand. If you do your best, for the Stoics, that is genuine happiness.

How do you deal with bad people who have power over you?

In Epictetus’ time, he called them tyrants. Today, we might call them something else, but they still exist. The terrible boss, the bully, the corrupt politician.

First, Epictetus says to recognize that they are not as powerful as they seem to be. They might have a puffed up ego, but even with all their money or authority they don’t have power over the important things. They can’t make themselves a good person. They can’t make you a bad person. They only have power over a few things, namely external things, indifferents.

Second, recognize that if you fear them, it is because you also value things outside your control - these indifferent things. Epictetus says to his students:

But it is a man’s own opinions which disturb him: for when the tyrant says to a man, I will chain your leg, he who values his leg says, Do not; have pity: but he who values his own will says, If it appears more advantageous to you, chain it.

Discourses 19.1

Epictetus’ point is that if you desire things other people control, you will find them terrifying. If you desire a promotion, you will be focused on appeasing and kissing up to your terrible boss.

If you want to be popular, you will have to laugh along with the jokes of the bully.

The Stoic focuses on virtue. The Stoic does what they think is right with the things up to them, and accepts that the Tyrant will do the same. And if it seems right to the tyrant to chain up or exile the Stoic, they will do that.

Tyrants control the domain of externals. And if we worship externals, the things not to us, then they will control our happiness and our emotions.

Epictetus gives the example of a man who has been elected to an important position in Rome:

Has a man been exalted to the tribuneship? All who meet him offer their congratulations: one kisses his eyes, another the neck, and the slaves kiss his hands. He goes to his house, he finds torches lighted. He ascends the capitol: he offers a sacrifice on the occasion. Now who ever sacrificed for having had good desires? For having acted conformably to nature?

Discourses 19.1

Epictetus is right here. We claim to be Stoics but celebrate a promotion or raise.

We should focus on celebrating our internal victories. Elsewhere in the Discourses, Epictetus compares these moral victories winning the Olympics. The moral dilemma, the moment of bravery, the time you did what is right, that is your Olympics.

So ask yourself, when someone has scared you or seemed terrible, what external success or reputation are you holding onto?

Tyrants on their own are not as powerful as they seem. Don’t give them power over you by valuing the things they have the ability to give or take away.

3.3

Hippocrates after curing many diseases himself fell sick and died.

The Chaldaei foretold the deaths of many, and then fate caught them too.

Alexander, and Pompeius, and Caius Caesar, after so often completely destroying whole cities, and in battle cutting to pieces many ten thousands of cavalry and infantry, themselves too at last departed from life.

Heraclitus, after so many speculations on the conflagration of the universe, was filled with water internally and died smeared all over with mud.

And lice destroyed Democritus; and other lice killed Socrates.

What means all this?

You have embarked, you have made the voyage, you are come to shore; get out.

If indeed to another life, there is no want of gods, not even there.

But if to a state without sensation, you will cease to be held by pains and pleasures, and to be a slave to the vessel, which is as much inferior as that which serves it is superior: for the one is intelligence and deity; the other is earth and corruption.

https://stoameditation.com/read/meditations/3/3

Read more

Caleb pushes back.

This solo episode uses the viral debate as a launching pad for what the Stoics actually think about self-examination.

Caleb draws a sharp line between the kind of introspection the critics hate — guilt, rumination, dwelling on the past — and the kind Marcus Aurelius practiced: forward-looking, demanding, and grounded in a clear standard of how to live.

(00:00) The VC’s argument against introspection

(03:00) Marcus Aurelius as counterexample

(05:00) What Stoic introspection is

(08:30) Self-criticism: proleptic, not punishing

(13:30) Knowing yourself: the Delphic tradition

(18:00) Why Stoic introspection isn’t rumination

(20:30) The risks: diminishing returns and the hall of mirrors

(23:30) How much introspection is enough

Download the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/pod

If you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we’ll set you up with a free account.

Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/

Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:

https://ancientlyre.com/

Adapt yourself to the things that circumstances have brought to you. And the people who happen to surround you–love them, but do it truly, sincerely.

Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 6.39

If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. If you lend to those whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive back as much. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing back; and your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil.

Luke 6.32-35

So let every one of you, who is eager to be or gain a friend, eradicate [faulty] judgments, hate them, drive them out of your mind. If you do that, then in the first place, you will never criticize yourself or be in conflict with yourself, and you will be free from inward reproach and self-torture; and, in the second place, in relation to other people, you will always straightforward to every like-minded person, while to everyone who is unlike you, you will be tolerant, gentle, kindly, forgiving, as to one who is ignorant, or is making a mistake in things of greatest importance.

Epictetus, Discourses, 2.22, 34-36

For what purpose do I make a friend? In order to have someone for whom I may die, whom I may follow into exile, against whose death I may stake my own life.

Seneca, Moral Letters 9.10

In practice though, the life they encouraged was not too dissimilar to Stoicism. The Epicureans recommended a virtuous life because they argued that a virtuous person would feel the most pleasure. The virtuous person is free from jealousy, desire, anger and other painful emotions. Not to mention they would have no enemies out to destroy them.

However, there was one major difference with the Stoics. The Epicureans thought we should separate ourselves from society. They encourage us to avoid having children, and live in a small commune of close friends. Politics is dangerous they would argue. It presents too many opportunities for suffering. Today the Epicurean might be compared to the person living off the grid - self-sufficient and peaceful, but disconnected.

Discourses Book 1 Chapter 23 is a criticism of this Epicurean tendency for isolation.

Epictetus sees this as weakness. You aren’t virtuous enough to navigate politics well, so you avoid it. You are not calm enough to raise your child, so you abandon them.

Epictetus says to his students:

Epicurus…ventures to say that we should not bring up children. But a sheep does not desert its own offspring, nor yet a wolf; and shall a man desert his child?

His point is that we criticize the sheep as dumb, and the wolf as vicious, but both still raise their children. Both still perform their social duties.

The Stoic lesson is this: living with other people is hard. It will lead to mistakes. You will lose your temper and patience. Work will challenge you, and your family will challenge you.

But this is why we need to study philosophy and practice our virtue. Anyone can avoid getting angry by removing themselves from social situations entirely. Our goal is to be a great member of a community, which is a much higher calling.

The Stoics are often criticized for being detached - much more often than the Epicureans. But this is an interesting example of what Stoicism actually asks of us. Stoics do not detach themselves from politics and social pressure so they can feel good. They detach themselves so that they can contribute more effectively, so they can help others.

The Stoic detaches themselves from their child’s tantrums, so they can be a better parent. It is the Epicurean who deserts their difficult child.

Some of Jesus’ core teachings land hard from a Stoic lens. Vice lives in desire, not action. The cowardly adulterer is worse than the bold one — he has two vices instead of one. Virtue demands the right reason, not just the right deed. Film your charity for Instagram and you’ve already collected your reward. Turn the other cheek isn’t passive — it’s radical character consistency. And loving your enemies? If you only love your friends, you’re not doing anything impressive. Everyone does that.

But then things get complicated. What’s the ethical function of miracles? Why does faith matter if the Stoics demand knowledge? And if heaven promises a hundredfold return on your sacrifice, doesn’t Christianity collapse into delayed hedonism?

Michael and Caleb wrestle with all of it — the overlaps, the tensions, and the parts that don’t resolve neatly.

(03:00) Reading Jesus as a Philosopher

(07:30) Vice Lives in Desire, Not Action

(12:30) Virtue Requires the Right Reason

(17:00) Turn the Other Cheek

(22:00) Love Your Enemies

(28:00) Cast the First Stone

(37:30) The Danger of Appearances

(41:30) Where a Stoic Pushes Back

(51:20) Ted Chang and the Literature of Faith

Download the Stoa app (it’s a free download): https://stoameditation.com/pod

If you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we’ll set you up with a free account.

Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/

Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations:

https://ancientlyre.com/